Niall McCarthy told David Hennessy about his play Derry Boys which opens at London’s Theatre503 this week.
Niall McCarthy’s debut play Derry Boys follows two boyhood best friends who grew up in Derry and then spend years separated before reuniting in present day London as hugely different, divided people.
Andy McLeod directs a cast of Matthew Blaney, Eoin Sweeney and Catherine Rees.
The production is playing at London’s Theatre503 and it was born from the theatre’s Rapid Write Response programme.
Derry Boys is the first full length play from London- based writer Niall McCarthy but he has had his short plays performed across the UK, with his short play Die Trying being nominated for the Kenneth Branagh award 2024.
Derry Boys explores themes of identity, ambition, and the challenges of navigating a complex world.
It follows the lives of Paddy and Mick, both born and raised in Derry, who are separated as children and later reunite as adults in London, revealing how their lives have diverged over time.
Is it exciting to have your first play onstage in London?
“It is.
“It’s the biggest step in my career so far so I’m buzzing about it.
“It’s really exciting, losing a bit of sleep the last couple of nights in the run up but it is definitely more excitement than nerves, I’d say.”
Is it a story you’ve always wanted to write?
“I suppose it is.
“On my notes app on my iPhone, there’s a note from 2016 with the original idea of two young lads trying to start their own sect of the IRA, it just felt like the Irish Four Lions as I keep calling it, so it’s been on my phone for that long.
“And then I suppose, when I was doing stand up in London, all my best jokes or the jokes that got the best response were all about being Irish or being from Derry and so the play itself kind of just became a vehicle for those jokes nearly, I could just cram them all in and build a story out from there really.
“And then Theatre503’s Rapid Write Response programme is how this play actually came about.
“Whatever play they put on, they invite writers to watch it the first night and then you have five days to write a 10 minute play in response to that play you’ve just seen.
“So I wrote what ended up being the first scene of Derry Boys and Theatre503 put it on with five other shorts in a showcase and the response it got us was just incredible, it was like nothing I’d ever had for any piece of writing before.
“And so after that, the lad who directed it Andy McLeod came to me and he was like, ‘I think we should do something with this. I think you should write a full length version’.
“And I was like, ‘Yeah, I’ve already started, I’m 30 pages in so I’ll let you know when you can read it’.”
Tell us about the story, it’s about this pair of lads who have grown up together in Derry reconnecting in London..
“They were both wee Catholic boys.
“With that they are very sore. Part of being a Catholic in Northern Ireland is this idea that you don’t really live in your own country because you identify as Irish, not Northern Irish.
“And so these lads are just particularly hurt by this and so they tend to just egg each other on so they just end up getting in a lot of trouble but as they grow up, and the story tracks their entire lives, they grow apart and one of them tries to grow out of all these ideas and he tries to grow as a person and the other one just falls deeper into these ideals of sectarianism and violence so when they meet in London, they’ve grown as far apart as they get at that point when they meet up again having two very different lives.
“But then it’s hard to outgrow the old habits and so maybe the lad who fell deeper in maybe he tempts the one back into joining the activity…”
I would find it hard to believe there’s not bits of people you know in both these characters, is there?
“100%, I would definitely not say any particular character is based on anyone I know because the characters are idiots so I wouldn’t want to put that on someone.
“But definitely the things they say and things the characters talk about are all- almost all of them- things people have said to me in real life or thoughts I’ve had or stories from my family when they might have lived in England, worked in England and when they were back in Derry.
“While the story itself isn’t based on true events, the entire thing is based on truth.
“It’s a very much modern day, it’s very post conflict because that, I think, is the struggle for young men like this and people like this in Derry is that the conflict’s over and, from our point of view or the point of view of the characters they lost and they don’t want to give up that fight even though the whole world’s kind of moved on, they don’t want to move on.
“They want to get their country back, as they see it.”
Does the idea of a united Ireland, which is being spoken about more and more, come up into the play?
“It does come up a few times now because that is the dream for these characters.
“That’s what they’ve been fighting for so they’d both be looking forward to that, and it’s more real.”
It makes it a timely time to put this play on, doesn’t it?
“Yeah, well to be fair it’s been a long, long time coming, because I think it was nearly three years now I started writing it.
“It’s kind of one of these stories that I think is always going to be relevant in some kind of way.”
Would you describe it as primarily a comedy, is it very dark in its humour? That would be very Derry, wouldn’t it?
“It would, yeah.
“And definitely.
“I definitely try to think of it as comedy first because, as I say, it really started as a vehicle for my stand up jokes, just to formulate them into a story.
“But obviously you can’t have comedy without drama, they go hand in hand.
“It nearly feels like the more dramatic the situation is, the funnier it is as well.
“I can talk about things I want to say but at the end of the day, it’s about entertaining people, keeping a crowd, making sure that they’ve got their money’s worth for their tickets and I think a huge part of that is making them laugh, making sure they enjoy their time.
“As much as you want to make feel, you have to make them laugh so that everyone has fun.”
You have a cast of Ulster actors, is that necessary for their understanding the issues?
“I think it is and even just in the conversations we’ve had in the rehearsal room about where we come from, it’s amazing the things it adds.
“Actually all the actors themselves are actually all from the same 100 metre radius in Belfast.
“They all come from literally streets apart which is fantastic, because sometimes when you’re in England and you’re trying to cast Irish parts, sometimes you don’t really have a lot of options.
“I’ve had a lot of plays put on with English actors doing the accents and no harm to them, they try their best.
“We’re all semi-amateur so it’s not even just to have the actors be able to do the accent, to have them understand the text is just a massive boom to the piece in general.”
I’ve seen Matthew Blaney in a David Ireland play (Not Now) at Finborough Theatre.
Would this play have a similar tone to some of David Ireland’s stuff or what tone would you be trying to strike?
“Yeah, 100%.
“Yeah, if someone came to it and said this play was very tonally like a David Ireland play, I would take that as a massive compliment.
“The kind of the people I try to emulate with my writing very much would be like John Michael McDonagh, Martin McDonagh, Tarantino, David Ireland. Those are the cats I’d be naming.
“I’m not gonna say it’s as good as their writing but if someone said it was similar, I’d take that as a compliment 100%.”
Would you like a lot of the London Irish come to see it? Are you getting a sense of that interest?
“I want as many Irish people in London see it as possible because a huge part of the story is about the Irish experience in London and how it affects the characters.
“There’s this real kind of notion that it almost radicalises you when you come to England as an Irish person and seeing how little they know of what’s gone on in our country.
“I want everyone to come and I think they’ll love it.
“I hope they do anyway.”
What’s your own take on Northern Ireland. I’m sure it’s much better than it was one time but are the tensions still very much there under the surface?
“Always.
“You know what? I truly believe that Derry is one of the best cities in the world.
“I love it.
“I love Derry so much and it’s one of the nicest places and the people are some of the nicest people in the world, but not a few weeks ago, on Easter Monday, there were petrol bombs thrown at police from a Republican March celebrating the Easter Rising.
“So you can’t really say that things have moved on when these things can still happen,
“But for myself, the Derry I experience, for most people, everyone just wants peace and I hope that’s what people kind of end up taking away from the play, is that there’s a price worth paying for peace and if that’s letting go of these ideals, like nationalist ideals, then that’s the price I’d be willing to pay anyway.”
There will be no united Ireland without some sacrifices on things like flags, the capital city, currency..
“Of course.
“And I mean half the people in Northern Ireland probably don’t want a United Ireland in the first place.
“The whole thing is just a time bomb.
“What if it did happen to spark more conflict?”
And after all the peril of Brexit..
“It’s almost easy to forget now, even though it was only a few years ago but at the time when I started writing this play, Brexit was a huge concern for people and people were scared.
“There was a lot of fear surrounding it and the idea that there could be a hard border put in, that there would be a sea border and all these factors that no one had anticipated going into Brexit then suddenly people, especially in the Catholic community in Northern Ireland were further away from their United Ireland as they had ever been with a wall going between them and what they consider their country.”
With Derry Girls and now Kneecap, there seems to be lots of exciting stuff coming out of the province..
“There really is.
“What I think it is is it’s a place born from conflict.
“There’s conflict everywhere, in so much of the world right now.
“You can’t turn on the news, can’t open Instagram, it’s all there and I feel like, to me, what I’ve been saying is kind of like the whole world feels like Derry now.
“I think that’s why people are now so able to relate so closely to things like Derry Girls and to the story of Kneecap, it’s extremely compelling.
“I think that voice born in conflict flows through in all Northern Irish artists and all Irish artists even.
“I think those voices have always been there, those artists have always been there but I think the world is just starting to notice now because of how relevant we now are to the grander cultural landscape.”
Back in the 90s it would have been unthinkable to see a sitcom set in conflicted Derry air on a major UK network..
“It is madness.
“And the maddest thing for me: No one knew, about Derry, Derry was the second city of Northern Ireland and most people wouldn’t even know it if you said it to them.
“But then suddenly Derry Girls comes out and it’s the first thing people say to you.
“Not only is it a show that put us on the map but it’s also just good, it’s a good show in its own right.
“And the fact that it’s a point of pride for the people of Derry is massive, it’s amazing.
“You can underestimate the value of representation a lot but then when you see it and the people of Derry have that pride to be recognised for something rather than only associated with the troubles or a massacre, that means a lot to the people.
“I think the next step for us now is we’ve had Derry Girls, amazing show. Kneecap, fantastic artists but I think the next step for having really made it is when we have a great piece of art come out of our region that isn’t based on the conflict at all.
“When we can stand on our own, that’s the next step.”
Since coming to London, have you had similar experiences to those of the characters in your play?
“I’ve definitely gone through a lot of the things.
“Almost everything the characters talk about in their time in London has been my personal experience, I would say.”
Would you have encountered misconceptions about Derry or people from there?
“I would have.
“Before I was here, I went to uni up in Newcastle.
“Half of the people thought Derry with an active war zone to hear them talk and the other half probably had family stationed there.
“I haven’t heard anyone say to me, ‘Do you not mean Londonderry?’
“I haven’t heard someone say that to me in like three, four years and I really do think it probably is because of Derry Girls and the influence it’s had in the wider culture.”
Niall has another play coming up that is set to play at Camden Fringe. He is also writing a TV pilot.
“I mentioned I could feel the progression with the writing.
“Even two years ago I think I had three short plays on in the whole year of 2023.
“In 2024 I had plays on 29 nights out of the year.
“The difference in those two years is just massive, seeing how far along it’s come.”
And you have had the award nominations along the way as well getting nominated for the Kenneth Branagh award was that a big thing..
“That was very big and personally quite big for me.
“My parents flew over and it was the first time they had actually ever seen my writing, they saw the performance of the play that I was nominated for.
“Actually in that play was Eoin Sweeney and Matthew Blaney.
“They both performed in that play as well together.
“I’ve been working with both of them for the past few years.
“I think they’re fantastic actors.
“And Catherine Rees as well, she was part of a rehearsed reading for Derry Boys last January so she’s also been with the play and someone I’ve worked with before.
“So the run we’re gonna have now, starting on 20th, it’s really going to be a culmination of all my work in London to this point.”
Tell us about the play you’ve got coming up at the Camden Fringe. Is that looking at similar topics, or is that a different thing?
“It’s completely different.
“It has nothing to do with Ireland at all.
“It’s about a young couple on their first holiday, their first getaway in the south France and nuclear war ends the world.
“One of the roles is Irish.
“The male part is Irish.
“I do feel an obligation to represent Irish people and to provide parts for Irish actors because if Irish writers don’t do that, no one else is going to so I’ll always write for Irish voices.
“That’s a very fun play.
“That’s coming up in August but my mind right now is 100% focused on Derry Boys.”
Derry Boys runs until 7 June at Theatre503, Battersea Park Road, London.
For more information, click here.
